@Beaker on #Devops

Yesterday @beaker posted his ideas on the #devops movement ...

Apparently we haven't been stressing enough on the fact that it isn't just about Devs and Ops,
So let me repeat it's not just about Devs and Ops, it's about breaking silo's , about being good at our jobs, about getting conversation started, about talking to different stakeholders in the processes . We are absolutely trying to include all groups, not exclude some.

@beaker also seems to have seen many presentations where developers are shown to have evolved in practice and methodology, but operators (of all kinds) are described as being stuck in the dark ages. , is that a different point of view on another continent \, on this side of the Atlantic, it's mostly the Ops people that are already using agile methods spreading the word and it isn't about Devs talking about Deopvs yet. It's actually mostly the ops spreading the word because they feel most of the pain .

Hoff also wonders about routers switches firewall and all the other boxen where we aren't running puppet or chef on , the boxes that are left out of our fully automated environments .
Indeed, Puppetcamp Europe once again woke up the discussion on how to tackle these boxen, the lack of use of existing standards was covered .. and some mentioned that CIM and family are pretty much death or irrelevant for real life usage , both the Puppet and Chef communities are working on manifest, modules and recipes to solve the issues.

But the good thing is that we now have the security people involved too, maybe they'll figure out how to survive longer than 6 months in a CSO position if they talk to the others and come out of their Ivory towers :)


Mark Bainter's picture

#1 Mark Bainter : #devops

on this side of the Atlantic, it's mostly the Ops people that are already using agile methods spreading the word

Well, I can't speak for the entire continent, but in the circles I travel in here there aren't many ops guys talking about this. Agile is pretty well known to developers (even if most of them I know don't practice any of it - at least not in any consistent recognizable way, just hodgepodge elements), but ops isn't paying much attention.

And in my experience, Ops often *includes* network and security. While puppet/chef don't necessarily address appliances well, there are other tools than do, and often do it quite well. But while devops includes them to some extent, they are not dealing with the same amount of "change" as web/db operations is, which does somewhat set them apart. Not to exclude them, but just to recognize there are differences.

I understand what he's saying about how the presentations could be off-putting, but only if your pride is more important to you than making things better. In my experience, a lot of operations teams are in the dark ages. We didn't try to find new ways to deal with the changes in development cycles because we hate change. So we dug in our heels and pushed back, but we lost that battle and now it's time to find a way to accommodate constant change and continue to provide reliability.